J763 WVX - starting problems, and hopefully a return to form

Daniel B · Post by **Daniel B** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:25 pm

Hello gents,

hope all is well in the land of the 16V?

As you may know I really haven't been using my BX much in the last few years, and in fact in the last year she hasn't really turned a wheel, well apart from going for a service/MOT and taking me to hospital!

She was sat outside for a while, and is now back in the leaky garage, the net result being I have a mouldy interior

I am fairly sure it is retrievable though.

At this point I was seriously thinking about moving her on somewhere (Cue the sleepless night), to someone who would give her some TLC and take her out a bit more than once a year.

Fortuitiously my good friend Darren was after a bit of a project, and we have agreed to go into a kind of shared ownership thing, where he's insured on the car, and we maintain it and keep it running together and split the costs to some degree, he is also rather more handy with a spanner than I am

The plan is to get her up and running, and maybe attend a show at some point, on my own I just don't have the time to spend that I would like to, what with a full time job and too much study, plus the normal home stuff we all have, it's a nightmare to find anytime, so Darren will be bringing some new enthusiasm to proceedings, and between us it will be manageable.

I will send Darren a link to the forum and ask him to register, so you will likely be seeing him on here soon, please make him welcome

The current issue we have is that she will not start, we tried it last in December with no success, old fuel would seem to be the most likely culprit, so we are probably going to syphon it all out, and stick some fresh fuel in - will there likely be any problems with the overflow tank, or should that not come into play?

Previous times when she has been stood for a while the old girl has started fine first time, but that was with the old trusty starter motor, and now I have a new whizzy one, which doesn't sound as nice, and I fear doesn't do as good a job.

Does anyone know if you can still get a new old style starter motor, or are they all like that now?

If the fuel doesn't seem to be the issue, does anyone else have any good pointers of where to start?

We've already established we're getting a healthy spark on all 4 HT leads.

Cheers for now

Dan

Post by **Toddman** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:14 pm

Hi Dan
Good to hear from you and great to hear you are getting stuck into the valver again

My first thoughts would be fuel so hopefully you will see some results with the fresh stuff.

Does the car fire at all currently ?

Cheers
Luke

thanuttiscotsman · Post by **thanuttiscotsman** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:21 pm

hi daniel, how are ya? glad to hear your gonna get your motor back out, as for starting prob, if your getting a spark then the only other thing has gotta be fuel. to test it, take the upper pipe off of the fuel pressure regulator then turn the starter over just one or twice and you should get a squirt of fuel out the regulator (be wary it will shoot out over the engine and toward front bumper so a rag covering the front will protect paint) this will confirm there is pressurised fuel behind the injectors in which case i would guess old fuel, if nothing comes out then its a lack of fuel problem so pump or something. anyways its bound to be something trivial. to save the syphoning efforts you could just fill her with fresh fuel and add some octane booster to richen the fuel.

cheers rossco

Timmo · Post by **Timmo** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:32 pm

Hey Dan! how you doin fella!
my Ol' Girl suffered a starting issue around december when we had the cold snap, wipped the plyugs out and cleaned them off and same for the cap, charged up the battery overnight and she fired up lovely! they do like a good spark and a powerful battery, (ive got a TD battery on it - HUGE! and a TD starter as they run 1.1hp compared to 0,9 of the petrol version!

makes it a lot quicker starting!!)

if you havent done it then it may well be worth fitting a relay into the starting circuit, (is a lot easier than it sounds!) allows the starter to have a full shot of juice instead of relying on the old wiring!

keep us updated matey!

Frenchracingblue · Post by **Frenchracingblue** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:57 pm

Hi, Ignition relay is a nice idea, probably not the reason yours wont start, but an awful lot of BXs had starter motor replacements when the true reason was volt drop across the ignition switch, so just getting the ignition switch to operate a relay in the engine bay works well. I've done loads of them. whizzy starters are fine, the 16v is no heavyweight to start.

Starting problems: pull the coil lead off the distributor cap and stick a spark plug up it! should see loads of sparks when turned over. then put it back and check at a spark plug lead, should see a quarter of the sparks! if no sparks at all at the plugs but sparks at the coil then the rotor arm's probably shorting to earth, common breakdown on an Mi16 engine.

If you check for fuel pressure, have some respect for the HT leads and the massive risk of fire. Old fuel wouldn't stop one of these engines running, unless the fuel cap's been in the boot for years! If no pressure, listen for the pump at the back, check the pump relay connections...

Mike E (uk) · Post by **Mike E (uk)** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:40 pm

Hi Dan,

Remember that it is far easier for a plug to spark when not under compression in the cylinder, so don't assume that you are getting the full HT voltage just because you see a spark.

Clean out the distributor cap and arm with WD40, and check the arm is turning round! (cam belt) Inspect all the HT parts for cracks or tracking.

1 year old fuel will run the engine, mine has been SORNed for a year, but I run it up every 3 weeks and it starts 1st turn of the key on the old fuel.

The newer smaller starter motors are very powerfull for their size.
As mentioned above, if the starter sounds slow, test your battery with a load tester, then suspect the wiring before condeming the starter motor.

Similarly to the starter solonoid relay mod, a relay to connect the coil +12V feed directly to the battery helps guarantee a proper size spark.

good luck,

Mike

Daniel B · Post by **Daniel B** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:32 am

Hello chaps,

thanks for all the replies, it's good to be back

Luke: Yes the car turns, and seems to nearly catch, but not quite, we've been running it off another cars battery as well for maximum power.

TNS: Yep we are defo getting fuel there, we found that out before christmas, so I thikn that proves the pump is all good.

Timmo: Good tip on the sprak plugs, but don't you need a special adaptor to get to them as they are so far down....? Wiring is pretty much bog standard at present.

FRB: Well I hope it is old fuel, as that would be the easiest solution, but we will see.......

Mike: Thanks for the wd40 tips, and for the various bits to check, duly noted. I see you also think it might not be the fuel

Oh well, cross that bridge when we come to it, should have a crack at it one evening this week.

Cheers

Dan

Timmo · Post by **Timmo** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:17 am

Dan, std 16mm spark plug socket/tool is all you need fella! i have botht he T handled plug tool and the socket dirve, the socket version can be easier if the plugs are in tight due to extra leverage as the T handled version has a very short arm!

mine suffered like your describing where it will fire over but just not quite catch after the cold damp spell in november last year, wouldnt fire up and killed off the battery charge trying, but as said, a quick clean of the plugs, cap arm etc and a full charge and up she went first turn,

fuel wise mines the same as Mike's, been off the road since Nov 07 and still runs fine on the fuel left in it!

the relay int he starter circuit is a good mod to do wether its stricly needed or not, all helps with the ageing wires!

Daniel B · Post by **Daniel B** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:15 pm

We have success!

Down to Darren's skills with a spanner.

The draining of the tank just wasn't going to happen, but a bit of jiggery pokery in the engine bay (I shall let Darren explain) and she fired up first time, no hesitation at all.

Bit tickety at first, but that quietened down, and the idle was spot on, as it always has been previously.

Just have to make sure the fan kicks in at the right point, we didn't get it to come on on Monday, and hoover out the inside, and the plan is to go for a gentle run on Saturday afternoon, and to get some fresh fuel aswell.

MOT is up mid April I believe, so just in the nick of time!

Anyone have any tips or hints on how to clear the sunroof drains, I think there was an article (Maybe by Mike E?) on how to do it once upon a time in the distant past.......

Dan

Timmo · Post by **Timmo** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:32 pm

dan, if you have access to welding wire then thats a good one to use, i used the air supply at work as it ran of a Monster compresser!
pop the rear lights off and you'll see the drain tubes (one either side), a bit fiddly to gett he ends out through the hole sint he light panel but when you do feed the welding wire up the drain gently, anything thats in there should push out the top,
the compressed air method worked a treat as it fired anythign lodged in there out easily!
the risk you run if you try it from the sunroof end is that if the blockage gets very blocked and you try and force it you run the risk of popping the drain off the end of the channel, then its a roof lining drop job!

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:16 pm

It lives !

Monday nights spannering paid off , we thoroughly cleaned plug caps, dizzy cap and rotor arm and gave the idle control valve a good squirt of brake cleaner. Also checked fuel reached the injector bar and added a fresh battery. Started first time ! Probably helped by the couple of gallons of fresh fuel Dan whacked in there a couple of months ago.
Plan is to give it a gentle run saturday and make sure everything works ok.
Timmo - Good tips on the sunroof drains -I will get the compressor out ! Dan has also mentioned some moisture ends up in the front footwells in heavy rain - is this also a common problem ? had this issue in another car where the drain tube from either edge of the windscreen scuttle was too short and water found its way down the inner wing seam, along some wiring and into the footwell! Didn't have time to check this out the other day so any pointers welcome..

Cheers peeps for all the helpful hints and tips

Daniel B · Post by **Daniel B** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:20 pm

Nice little 20 mile run or so tonight, with no issues, Darren GT85'd the accelerator cable which seems to have cured the stickyness it had when I first applied some revs.

Fan cut in fine, dials are reading high I think, but that was from when the dials were changed so no biggie.

Slight annoyance that has been there for a while is that the headlight/sidelight display in the middle of the dash flickers and goes out, even though the lights themselves are fine, what's the fix for this, get the dash out, and re-do the connections?

All lights and indicators are fine, apart from the driving lights/fog lights, but I think I had issues with them a while back, I have a brand new pair sat in the garage bought off ebay, so guess need to fit them and sort the wiring out at the same time.

Was comparitively gentle with the throttle as only her first trip out for a while, so didn't go mad, but the smile factor is there as big as ever, and a judicious prod of the right foot elicits a lovely note from the rear end, and a surge of energy towards the horizon

We went out in 2 cars, so one as a support vehicle, and Darren drove back while I tailed, and it was nice to see the BX from outside, looke dtotally planted, and so nice to see the styling compared to every other eurobox, just looks very clean and, well nice and different really

Dan

Daniel B · Post by **Daniel B** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:59 pm

Evening Gents,

took the BX out off the garage tonight, started first time, and idling beautifully, and seemingly not a single leak of any amount!

I am at college tomorrow, but Darren is going to take her for a full valet inside and out, no steam cleaning though

And then tomorrow night we will take her out to basically burn some petrol

Quick Q, I noticed that the sunroof when pushing the botton to go from tilt to shut, to slide, no longer stops at the 'closed' position, and I'm pretty sure it used to?

Am I imagining that feature that I thought used to be there??

And if not, what are the likely candidates for causing it?

Cheers

Dan

Post by **Toddman** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:10 pm

Hi Dan
All sounds good

Yes you are correct, if you push and hold the sunroof switch the sunroof should go from tilted open and then stop at the closed position.
It could be something as simple as a dirty switch though as I have found if you don't push the switch with some conviction it can stutter and miss the closed position.

I do have a complete sunroof and headlining in the stores if we need to examine one though.

Cheers
Luke

Mike E (uk) · Post by **Mike E (uk)** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:10 pm

yes, I did a paragraph or two when I did my sun roof drains, but I was quite enthusiastic and removed the headlining to do so.
(I think it got posted on Vanny's site or this one.)

it certainly is the best cure, as you can see everything is clear of obstructions, but it takes a few hours and is tricky to get the A and C piller trims in/out without breaking them.

Hope to get mine back on the road, May 1st.

I need to get it properly fettled ready to drive around France on Phil Chidlow's BXagon.

Mike

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